S.B. Karavashkin and O.N. Karavashkina

One more interesting issue was raised in discussing our paper; this second concerned the astronomic observations. The colleague SAS, thread “Adherents and opponents of SR”, post # 904 informed the community: “The issue was of blazar 0827+243 from which the plasma flows. ‘That apparent speed, the scientists said, corresponds to a true speed of greater than 99.9 percent of light speed, which is 186,282 miles per second’. After SR, with the speed of 0,999 C the seen length has to be 22 times less than that real …,

There also was the information of jets having 100 000 light years in length … If we see both, we cannot exclude a combination: 100 000 light years in length and with the speed 0,999 C, though this is not important.

If we recalculate the visible length into that real, we will yield 2,2 milliards of light years, which is already the value comparable with the radius of visible part of the Universe and its supposed age…

The distance reduction is interesting also from the view of finding the distances to the objects of the universe: as relativists state, the very space is reduced. We can take two bodies running one after another with same speed as one body, and visible distance between them has to reduce for the outer observer that is just we. As the Universe expands, all bodies move away from us with the speed growing with the distance. The question is, what do we see and what is really? The pattern of far space – is it the reality either illusion which we have to recalculate after Lorentz in order to yield real distances and the size of the Universe with them?”

This question is interesting not only and not so much from the view of particular numbers which SAS cited and in which, as other discussers showed, SAS made some error. As in the previous case, the issue is, whether the relativistic predictions are relevant to the real observations. If relativists rely not on the objective study that cleans the phenomenon of masking effects imposed by particular experimental techniques but on the visual impression, and make of this impression the gnosiological conclusions of real space-time reduction, in this case the observation of jet has to corroborate best the relativistic conception of the jet’s length reduction, due to which we would have to see the disk like that shown in Fig. 3, not a spherical object shown in the above referred web page (see Fig. 4).

fig3.gif (3629 bytes)


Fig. 3. The visual distortion of jet appearance which we would have to see if the jet moving with a relativistic speed under an angle to the observer


fig4a.jpg (19216 bytes)                  fig4b.jpg (19992 bytes)

a                                                                    b

Fig. 4. Blazar 0827+243,


At least in one image (second from the top) it is well seen that the jet moves not toward the Earth, as the authors point, but under some angle. In the motion toward the Earth, we would not see its connection with the blazer. The more, we hardly would be able to see this jet, as it would fully coincide with the blazar. But if the jet moved just under an angle, the reduction of its length, which with such speed would be considerable, would disable us to see the disk, we would see just the ellipse with a large eccentricity, as is shown in Fig. 3.

Let us try to consider this issue in more details, basing, as in the previous problem of moving rod, on the relativistic conception. In this case we will need only the independence of light speed and its finiteness, as relativists declare after classical physics. If the relativistic declarations relate to their formalism, we have to draw our attention that the observed jet has also some duration in time, we can see it, because from the EM waves come to us from the jet ends that move with a finite speed. This means, if the jet moved under some angle to us, its ‘head’ and ‘tail’ are equally distanced from us. Consequently, the light needs different time to come here from the ‘head’ and ‘tail’ of the jet. Thereupon we yield the graph shown in Fig. 5.

fig5.gif (5406 bytes)


Fig. 5. The geometry to determine the visual size of jet moving with the speed v under some angle to the observer


We see from this graph that since


with the constant speed of light


This means, the rays from the points C and B cannot be registered simultaneously by the observer at the point O. The observer can register simultaneously only the light from the points C and A under condition


In its turn, this means that the observer at the point O will register not the true length of the jet but larger length


And proceeding from the fact that relativists all their space-time reductions derive from the non-simultaneity of events and finiteness of the light speed, they have no grounds to state that the jet has reduced due to its motion. The information coming with the light rays shows, the jet’s size has to grow for us in comparison with its true size. This conclusion is fully correspondent to those which we made before, when we stated incorrect the relativistic generalisation made on the basis of one technique of measurement. If changing the technique, all relationships and masking effects change and fully destroy the formalism of the relativistic conception.


1. Karavashkin, S.B. and Karavashkina, O.N. On longitudinal excitation of elastic medium having a moving boundary. SELF Transactions, 5 (2005), 1, 17,

2. Karavashkin, S.B. and Karavashkina, O.N. Notes on physical absolute. Supplement1. On clocks synchronisation. SELF Transactions, 3 (2003), 1, 1

3. Einstein, A. On the electrodynamics of moving bodies. - In: Collection of scientific works, vol. 1, p. 7- 37. Nauka, Moscow, 1965 (Russian)

4. Einstein, A. On the principle of relativity and its corollaries. - In: Collection of scientific works, vol. 1, p. 65- 114. Nauka, Moscow, 1965 (Russian)

5. Einstein, A. The theory of relativity. - In: Collection of scientific works, vol. 1, p. 175- 186. Nauka, Moscow, 1965 (Russian)

6. Pauli, W. Theory of relativity. OGIZ- Gostechizdat, Moscow- Leningrad, 1942 (Russian)

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